My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. Liberal, Conservative. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. The investigation revealed the use of an incorrect holster not designed for a [SIG] P320, said the statement, which was released Friday and posted to a U.S. online pro-industry publication, Soldier Systems. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Excellent work. Police officers (maybe) do an annual qualification and thats it. In 2020, the agent, who is a former marine, was doing his routine training with the P320. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. If the military was going to go cheap then they should have thrown Taurus into the mix. It SHOULD have more engagement width wise, but often doesnt due to things being rounded or out of square. But hey, in ruthless, lawless, Capitalvania were life is considered cheap and expendable no one gives a shit, especially the Far Right that screams about abortions and then kills off the children that were not aborted with loaded guns laying around the house. Canadas highly-trained counterterrorism force, JTF-2, is the only military unit with the SIG P320 in its inventory right now. Cars have so many electronics these days, who knows what could have gone wrong! ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. The trigger bar has to push up on it, for it to release. ! while being accompanied by some form of obvious stupidity like putting an unholstered gun in a gym bag with other stuff. I dont own a P320. I dont consider the drop-bang issue a failure and Sigs response was actually above any real need, except to perhaps deflect any easy wins for slime ambulance chasers I get that. Canadian soldier. Their visceral hatred for that which they see as competition to their little golden calf god and their blind, myopic, childish self-identification with an external dynamic is hilarious! The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). The modular SIG P320 is among the most widely-owned handguns on the planet. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. Big public relations disaster and Sig tries a second time to get the piece of shit to work and not go off when dropped. People who had problems have been replacing them with Lightning Strike SS ones. There were a lot of changes. What it likely means is that cops and other law enforcement officers carry and handle their guns far more often than the average Joe or Jane. My gun just went off! Nope. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. Just because someone shoots hyper-unrealistic 3 gun competition, subscribes to Recoil magazine and routinely watches their fave rave YouTube cult of personality channel shill for the latest company that paid him off doesnt make them a [emailprotected]$$. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. 01:10. So your fanboy perjorative falls not only flat but false. They are plaintiffs versions of what they say happened. RKC, the first time someone presented me with a 1911 whose trigger rivaled my Pythons single action, I started wondering about that. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. I would trust the intelligence of a Gorilla in a zoo before any one in the Far Right. Weird how that might happen. Theyve gotten tons of contracts because the gun is cheap, cheap, cheap to make. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. They've also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. The P320 pistol is a dog. With Biden spending outrageous amounts of money, whats 100 million here or there? You did get to sit and watch it with him, which leads to a serious question. A lot like carrying a cocked and locked 1911 but with the safety off. And they think hey have an actual legit lawsuit on their hands? And people have a way of looking for ways to deflect blame for those discharges, especially when they stand to lose their job as a result. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. They wouldnt have adopted it if was. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. As far as ships go, Im drawn to the original movie vessels because they look the most, to me, like something youd really see humans build in space in 300 years. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. . The U.S. manufacturer went a step further in its statement Friday, stating without evidence or attribution, that the timing of the article was intended to undercut its chances in the federal governments upcoming bid to replace all of the handguns in both the military and RCMP. Asking for a friend. Once word of that got out there was an avalanche of sexual harassment lawsuits against Fox news. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. First, keep in mind that allegations made in lawsuits are not statements of fact. I mean hey, yelling about firearms preferences online is no more productive than discussing nerdy Star Trek stuff, is it? SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. three changes to the original design. Glock is being sued too, because once loaded and a round is chambered, it also has a much lighter trigger than a DA/SA. Withe the P320 Sigs contract was $169.5 million, $103 million cheaper then Glock. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, Simply put, the P320 is not safe and the lawsuits arent frivolous. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. What exactly did Harrison mean by legal momentum? That isnt clear, but its easy to make an educated guess. As a striker-fired pistol, the P320 is "under constant pressure to fire," Bagnell said. Was it his fault? Bagnells and other lawsuits ABC claims at least 54 discharges and 10 suits against SIG describe instances of P320s going off dating back to 2016, prior to the upgrade. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. So are dumb(or arrogant) cops. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. 1) The p320 doesnt hold the striker fully to the rear. Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. The new Tauruses have a good rep, far better then the P320 or P365. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. It has nothing to do with Glock. Canadian soldier wounded by accidental discharge used wrong holster: SIG Sauer Thats deflecting from the real issue. The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. Or you would have to have enough slide play for the slide movement to physically disengage the sear and striker leg mating surfaces. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. JTF-2 is the only unit in. Funny how that works. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. This highly trained Fibbie was doing flips while dancing (breakdancing? Yesterday, a Canadian news outlet, CBC News, published a story regarding the unintended discharge last year of a SIG P320 by a Canadian Special Operator, resulting in injury and his unit withdrawing the pistol from service. But I hope Sig fights it until the bitterest of ends. The Moron engineer who decided to put that on the Glock should have been hung by his dirty balls. Ive seen similar situations at our Municipal range. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. Going on Sigs reputation I bought a P320. The best take on this subject is by the author himself: this is about slime lawyers looking to build a national narrative and get a few wins in, so they can more easily get the next win and the next one, the next one and so on. Upgrades are for things that didnt work right in the first place. And the fact they used real models, and big ones, gives the ships a real sense of heft, mass, movement and solidity that the garbage CGI ships of the new movies just cannot remotely compete with. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. brakes, remember? I have never had to have one serviced or replaced. The weapon was out of battery when it fired.. Thats fine. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. U.S. lawsuits It somehow moved to the hinges of the desk. And it doesnt take too much Googling to find plenty of reports of LEOs suing the Georgia company as well (see here, here, here, and here for just a few). ! only reveals ones immature emotional attachment to an inanimate object, which reveals a pretty childish worldview. 2. This leads me to conclude that the problem is not the gear but the moron using it. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. Having it as the ONLY trigger pull the weapon has seems (to me) clearly dangerous. 3 disaster is true and if it is Sig will go all out to cover it up if it was. I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. They mandate more discharges, with more property damage, more injuries, and more deaths. We will respect the ongoing investigation and will not offer further comment at this time, Bineau said. If it were a lowered tier manufacturer like a Taurus having allegations made against them, people would run with it without thinking twice. is the manual safety a kit you add? Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! I wouldnt be surprised if she did it intentionally, she clearly suffers from a serious case of media whoring. Legal Penalties. That focus drifts. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? Im not even sure I would do that with my 92 or something else that can be both decocked and locked. I was tempted to buy one at one time but no more. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. The design was incorporated from Bruce Grays trigger kit around the time of the original drop safety fix. It was expensive. Then theres the fact that the branches of the military have put the P320 design through their own batteries of testing and found it duty worthy. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. Look a fanboy. On Thursday, M.D. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. Training and experience are not a talisman that magically prevents accidents. This reminds me of when Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News for sexual harassment and she got 20 million dollars. The federal government intends to order up to 20,000 pistols for the military to replace its Second World War-era Browning Hi-Power handguns in a project that could be worth up to $50 million. BAM. Finger on the trigger and muzzle discipline are sometimes unheralded. Result: Sig P320 goes off when dropped and shoots people. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. Either one could have been a gun or a Barbie. Time will tell if no. Sigs are crap! His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). Really? Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. Some of the plaintiffs claim the pistol can fire without the trigger even being touched. Personally they should have gone with the Glock, its not for me but is a proven gun. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. Its a novelty, its got issues! The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. The incidents occur outside the forbidden zone, as we disarm before we enter so we stay in assiduous compliance with their nonsensical requirement. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. No, it doesnt. She didnt sue, but swore she would never own another Volvo again. SIG P320s were just the start and the P365 isnt far behind. Two, the plunger may have a propensity to remain partially raised, or staged, instead of returning fully to its secure position, lessening the energy necessary to move it and thus allowing less effort to do so. Hammer guns have a half cock notch for a reason. Manual safeties on pistols, hammer and striker fired systems were found necessary as far back as 1900. I continue to bet my life on them. Each incident gives them more blood for their macabre dance, and another tic-mark for their context-free gun violence tally. Give me a break. The problem was strikers. So I think it is unconscionable, given the number of incidents of this gun defectively discharging without a trigger pull, would necessitate that someone order it to be recalled and only SIG can do that.. BTW it was HK that made the first polymer gun, Glock actually stole the idea for the G17 from them. You arent a gunfighter, either. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. What a wonderful parody of a MAC cultist! Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. 2. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. Fact is most SF carry what they want and the Marine Recon I know very well who has friends in that community told me many in the Navy NSW program still carry the Mk 25, they don want a striker fired pistol that can hydrolock in water. One hell of a conspiracy. A few Warbirds decloaking would make me very nervous if it wasnt sci-fi fantasy. Thats SIGs term for a recall. 35446 Views 56 Replies 41 Participants Last post by tirod, Sep 1, 2021. I agree. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. That took a lot. They admitted their problem and fixed it. I have no idea. The cheap seats were $100-$200 and you got to watch Wrath of Khan with Shatner. Sig P320 Accidental Discharge 2021 Perhaps nothing speaks more clearly to the need for a total recall than the fact that in 2021, over four years after Sig Sauer offered its voluntary upgrade, people are still suffering injuries and lawsuits continue to be filed. saw the video, doesnt explain how it bypasses striker pin safety. Clients such as law enforcement officers whose negligent discharges could result in their being disciplined or fired unless it can be proven that the gun was at fault. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. I dunno if its a case of lowest bidders blues or what. Sounds like these officers and others are attempting to cover their posteriors. Mine is very accurate. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. The one officer in the ABC story had it wrapped in a rag in his gym bag? Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. Oh, if you another thread reader asking Wheres the Sig/Glock bashing? But then Im not a federal LE flunky who cant keep my booger hook off the bang switch, either. D. How many times does a pistol have to malfunction before you blame it? The thing I hate is getting kicked around! Yes, but that did not mean the machine would be able to go on being marketed like that. As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. The SIG P320, which has been manufactured since 2014, is known to go off without the trigger being pulled if it's dropped and lands on the ground at a certain angle. It takes time for any new platform to work the kinks out. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? Theyve also been adopted as duty guns by law enforcement agencies across the country. Keep the phrase legal momentum in mind. Sounds like most of these cases were off-body carry. He said there has to be something wrong with the gun if this is happening to individuals with this amount of training, this amount of skill.. Golly didnt Sig catch he!! That could happen easily. Its the expert who gets caught up in the routine and stops paying attention. Without a loser pays tort system, such abuse will go on and on. https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-iN4Wr8P_P2lGU6m2M5Rd8F6tVxyeeWdzleA_0eUoKjB0wER5wbVU_ouLj3uKCvLmUWhjIv2uHVC2R0Wv8Q9VgQ/messages/@.id==AMxkWSMoHX4bYSzMKA0AINojDH4/content/parts/@.id==2/refresh?appid=YMailNorrinLaunch&ymreqid=ae6c4f7d-acdd-ffa3-1c80-d70000011c00. And as far as Special Forces go, SF going to Glock has been documented as a bean counters solution to save money. If the latter were to occur, the drop safety would prevent discharge because it would not be pushed up by anything. Slowly people are realizing they arent the only ones having issues. In this version, Bridge City Officer Brittany Hilton tells her story of what she says happened when her P320 discharged as she was carrying it in her purse in what appears to be a SERPA holster (which has had its own problems, but thats another story). Grow up, you aint all that! Too Many Accidents That is exactly why all civilized countries have Government Agencies that monitor companies that have a callus disregard for human life and are only interested in the quick buck. The suit mirrors lawsuits filed across the country involving the semi-automatic gun known as the P320. These suits allege that their ultra-popular P320 pistol can fire without the trigger being pulled. Depending on who you talk to you will get many different answers. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . . But just the same- a gun going off from momentum? Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? NO, SIG has a problem that they would rather fight in court. Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. In 1982 the G17 hit the market and in 1983 they gave 30,000 pistols to the Austrian military at cost. Let us look at the history of other consumer products. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. They didnt see a problem at all and in fact, saw it as an upgrade over Glock. Glock's and Sig P320 are all designated as Double-Action-Only fire control mechanisms. They simply have never been seen in the upper echelon of handgun makers, their entire business model is to offer cheaper guns at cheaper prices. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . Theres just too much other paraphernalia bouncing around in there. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. Who knows. "It has a clear capacity to fire without the trigger being pulled under certain conditions," said Hilton's lawyer, Jeffrey Bagnell. And thats just my opinion. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. There was no holster involved. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. They function as commanded every time. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. Sig Sauer P220 Super Match. The pistol is popular with commercial gun owners and law enforcement south of the border. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. A shame but then no one was hurt. Its pathetic how often these legal stunts work. Jeff Bagnell, a lawyer in Westport, Conn., who has litigated 10 cases, mostly by commercial gun owners, related to SIG P320 misfires across several U.S. states, took note of the accident involving the Canadian special forces soldier. Bagnell is representing a number of the police officers who have filed suits against SIG for un-commanded discharges, but wouldnt disclose the exact number. He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. So it never had a history of a potential valid claim for ambulance chasers to work off of. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. SIG ultimately settled that lawsuit. Anyway around here they do. So the tally goes against the surrounding area, not against the gun free zone. Whether or not the suits have merit. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. Third, Glock has had problems, too. Harrison stated that, I have not seen enough to convince me that the upgraded version is dangerous., When ABCs David Scott asked Harrison if its a mystery whats going wrong with the updated version though Harrison had just stated the upgraded pistol isnt dangerous Harrison said, I do not have an explanation for why the updated version should have complaints from trained individuals. In fact, I dont own ANY striker fired polymer pistol. L. LRRifleman . I carry one in my front pocket routinely. Had a buddy, years ago, that was a deputy for Orange County in California. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Hey, Im glad theres somethings we agree on! The VIP screening with the meet and greet was like $600. Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. Guess it hasnt dawned on them that: 1. If they recruit smart cops, they wont have cops who will act against their political opponents outside of the constitution. 3. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. The Government mandated it to be made more safe to use and was. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. Sig P320 discharge while holstered.
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